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Old Sat 22nd April 2017, 06:58 PM
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Phizinza Phizinza is offline
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Cooling fans staying on.

I've swapped out to an EJ, I've kept the factory radiator, I have two fans mounted on the front of the AC condenser. I'm using the factory radiator thermo switch to operate both fans. When the gauge gets to about 3mm down from the middle line the fans kick in (the thermo sensor in the coolant crossover is at 90 degrees when this happens), and even at idle they stay on. I am not sure if my gauge is correct (note I am running an EA thermo sensor for the gauge). I have measured the temp on the output side of the radiator at 57 degrees, the input side is around 86 degrees. The coolant crossover at the thermo sensor stays at about 90.

Do you think I may have a blockage/airlock? The radiator is clear and worked perfectly with the EA, I have run an EJ on EA radiator with no issues in the past. Or do you think the gauge isn't reading right and the fans aren't cooling effectively enough? Or something else? Just looking for some suggestions. Thank you.
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Old Sun 23rd April 2017, 12:50 AM
Proton mouse Proton mouse is offline
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Phiz,
my experience says no prob at all running the EA Rad with an EJ. Mines an EJ22 bored to 2.5 and has no cooling issues at all, but I am not running fans on outside of Rad on the condenser. I know they lose their efficiency big time that way, but also know the space issue for fans on the engine side (I modded EJ engine mounts to shift engine back to fit fans on engine side)

What wiring setup have you got with regard to what initiates fan activation? Should be ECU that turns them on via a sensor on the block and then also fans on, when A/C is switched on (cycled on and off with the thermostat on the Evaporator) What is actually turning your fans on? You say at idle they are on but is that on cold start or only after warmed up? Even then if the thermo sensor is switching them on it should cycle them on/off (if it is functioning correctly and not stuck in 'closed circuit')
I wouldn't have my fans switched on by those EA thermo switches, they are hopelessly prone to failure. (I've had several fail and have read of many dodgy ones too)

I did have big problems initially with air locks. Even with heater on and taking off the highest sitting hose to purge it while car was on an incline, I couldn't get more than 3.5 litres into it. After disconnecting one of the hoses at the heater tap and generally mucking around filling at odd angles through several hoses, I finally got over 5 litres into it (5.5 I think!)
Cheers, John
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Old Sun 23rd April 2017, 09:06 AM
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Phizinza Phizinza is offline
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I don't have an ECU. My conversion is a little bit different...

I'm triggering a relay off the stock wiring using the radiator thermoswitch. Before I installed the relay I just used the stock wiring and it had the same issue. The temp doesn't get hotter than 100c in the coolant crossover at idle but it just isn't seem to come down enough to let the fans cycle like they usually do.

I have a feeling there is a flow issue as the radiator is cooling the water that is making its way back into the engine quite well enough, it's just not cooling the engine enough. I have already had the water pump off and can confirm it's in good working order. I've filled the system with the heater tap on and using a 400mm riser on the top hose to push water through the thermostat into the radiator. I've burped the system, ran it with the radiator cap side of the car up on a 300mm wall. Maybe I'll try and find a clear hose I can install on the top hose to see the flow rate..?

I put fans on the front of my last EJ swap, two Mazda 626 aircon fans, and they worked fine. Admittedly that was without the AC condenser though. This time round I've used a larger 323 AC fan (about 11 to 12 inch) and an ebay 8 inch fan, I've used foam seal between the condenser and radiator to ensure the high pressure air doesn't escape between the two. The temp of the fins on the radiator where the fans blow through proves the fans are working well.

Can anyone tell me what temp their thermostat housing is on their EA81 when the fans kick in? I think I may need another instrument cluster to check if my gauge is showing correct or not.
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Old Sun 23rd April 2017, 09:21 AM
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Phiz it's a tricky one as we don't know your full setup. I know you're not running the ecu due to a carb retro fit.

If the coolant crossover pipe remains at 90deg for whatever reason, your thermo fans will never turn off. The cutout on those thermo switches is 87 deg from memory.

I would say you've still got an airlock in the system somewhere. My ej22 sits smack on 82deg in moving traffic in this weather.

One other thing to think about is have you got the carb tuned too lean so the engine is always running that bit hotter or is there an issue in the wiring that triggers and cuts the thermo fans? I'd be looking at a dodgy relay or the thermo switch as John mentioned.

It could also be weird thing where the thermo fans are cooling too efficiently by the time the coolant gets to the thermostat, thus not allowing the thermostat to open much which in turn doesn't cycle coolant around quickly enough for it to get it back to the radiator at a temp below the cutout temp of the thermo switch.
Or it could be an indicator that there's and issue with the heater circuit which is used to monitor the opening of the thermostat to a certain degree.

I hope that makes sense!

Cheers

Bennie
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Old Mon 24th April 2017, 12:37 AM
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If the fans never shut off (with or without a relay) it has to be the thermo switch locked in the 'on' position.
Or if it IS cycling then it might be faulty and just coming on at a lower temp? Got another to try?
Or it may be fine and the coolant is hotter than you think? (assuming fans aren't on, on a cold start?) Are you measuring it with an infra red temp gun?
If the coolant is hotter than normal it gets back to the possibility of an air lock. Is your heater heating the cab fairly quickly after start? Or getting hot at all? If not then air lock it is. That's where I had mine as I had no heat in the cab with heater on full. Make sure the heater tap is functioning too.
You could try taking the heater out of play altogether by bypassing it at the 2 pipes running to the heater tap. Don't block them completely as the HAVE to have flow! Just a loop of hose will suffice to test the system then.
Good luck
John
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Old Mon 24th April 2017, 08:22 PM
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Phizinza Phizinza is offline
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Thanks for the suggestions.

I tested the switch in a pot of water on the stove awhile back and it appeared to be working perfectly fine. Switched on at around 90 degrees and off at 83 ish IIRC.

The heater in the car works well, as normal as I can remember it. Ignore my wiring changes as I had been testing it on the factory Brumby wiring that it used to use with the EA81 and it worked fine then.

At idle the carb is tuned pretty well, I'm not an expert but the idle is great now and the mixture screw is right on the sweet spot which indicates it's not lean.


I'll have to do some more experimenting to weed out different parts of the system. Anyone know where I can find some time?
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Old Tue 25th April 2017, 07:18 PM
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I did some more driving tests and left the car to get hot without the fans plugged in. Although it is running on only water at this stage the gauge was only half way between the running temp line and the over heat line (which the EA81 used to overheat at) before it started pushing steam out the radiator cap (radiator at 124 degrees). This tells me the gauge is reading wrong. When the temp gauge was at the running temp line (which it used to sit on with the EA81 when the fans would kick in) the radiator is at 102 degrees. I'm inclined to get another temp sender and thermoswitch just to see if it rectifies the issues.

I also put some 95 oct Shell in it and found 2.5 turns out on the mixture screw plus 13 degrees BTDC on the timing worked best but still a bit of pinging right down low on the revs when powering hard. Currently the tune is giving good power, most definitely much more than my old EJ22 Brumby had.
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Old Tue 25th April 2017, 08:29 PM
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Not sure if this would have an effect but here is my findings on the thermostats and thermo switch.

EJ thermostat
Dayco 77c
OEM 78c

EA81 thermostat
Tridon 82c
Wahler 82c

EA81 thermo switch
Tridon On 90c, off 85c


I'm a bit puzzled how the EJ manages having the thermostat on the input side of the engine, surely if the cooled water from the radiator is flowing into the thermostat it would close it and arrest the flow.
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Old Tue 25th April 2017, 09:20 PM
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My money is on a dodgy relay.... But I'd imagine you tested this already??
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Old Wed 26th April 2017, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phizinza View Post
I'm a bit puzzled how the EJ manages having the thermostat on the input side of the engine, surely if the cooled water from the radiator is flowing into the thermostat it would close it and arrest the flow.
Yes and no. The heater circuit provides heat when the rad is cold. Once everything is warmed up the coolant coming in isn't so cold as it enters the engine. It makes for a very efficient warm up for lower emissions. The trick is to mount the thermostat literally upside down so the heat sensing bit is on the engine side as you'd know.

Is your thermostat working properly or the radiator in good condition? Most importantly is it earthed for the temp sensor to do its work?

Have you tried running with the fans on all the time? The thermostat should manage the engine temp in the traditional way. If not there's something else that's at play here.

When were the HGs done on this EJ25?

Cheers

Bennie
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